Hi Guys

I am desparate for some more advice, Blue (my baby fur ball) is 18 months, i can honestly say she has always been a bit of a nark (not letting us get anything out of her mouth, jumping on settee and growling when we try get her off) however she settled down, however lately, as well as insescent barking at birds, she growled at me when i tried to put her lead on (we had let her off in the field) i really thought she was going to bite. she was snarling and looked quite menacing! Also she has strted to stand over my partner when he is in bed, barking and mouthing his hands.

 

I am the strictist with her but i am finding it quite hard at the moment, she has stopped responding to recall (she used to be fantastic at this) Blue is fab with other dogs tho, however will stand and bark and bark whilst wagging her tail ( I am thinking she wants to play)

 

Would appreciate some advice, i have tried squirting with water (when barking at birds) however she just gets wound up!

best to get a dog behaviour expert involved. Try someone from Jan Fennells te am she is on the web site just google her name. They use gentle method of training but asserting you as pack leader. works well and quickly. Dont know if you are in the u.k though

alli6203 wrote: Hi Guys I am desparate for some more advice, Blue (my baby fur ball) is 18 months, i can honestly say she has always been a bit of a nark (not letting us get anything out of her mouth, jumping on settee and growling when we try get her off) however she settled down, however lately, as well as insescent barking at birds, she growled at me when i tried to put her lead on (we had let her off in the field) i really thought she was going to bite. she was snarling and looked quite menacing! Also she has strted to stand over my partner when he is in bed, barking and mouthing his hands.

Before going back to the other post I will answer this.

Blue hasn't got consistant boundaries which you need to put into place.  Decide what you want Blue to do and not do and stick to them.   How you do this is important as well, it can either make or break a dog.

Clicker training is very good for dogs like Blue, it isn't difficult, when she does what you want you click and reward.  The sound of the clicker means that she has done what you want.  It is always better to teach by reward than punishment, they learn quicker and it strengthens the bond between you.

For not getting things out of her mouth, would you give something up someone tried to force you?  I wouldn't I would be pig headed and refuse to give it up.   To get a dog to give something up, do a swop.  If Blue has a slipper, get something more rewarding, a squeaky toy or a treat.  Often a squeak will get a dog's interest and if you offer the item, they will come for it.  High reward treats are best, you don't want Blue to refuse the reward and keep the slipper so use something like a very small piece of cheese of slice of hotdog. 

Dogs brains don't work like ours, once Blue's attention is on the reward the slipper has been forgotten.   If Blue goes back to the slipper, you need to be further away before rewarding her.   This does work, it has worked for all my dogs but does take a short time for the dog to understand so be patient.   If you are using a clicker, you can click as she drops the slipper.

If she is growling at you for putting her lead on, keep her on a long line instead, you will then have full control of her but she can still run and play.  I sometimes joine several long lines together to give my dogs more room while I am training them.  Only add lines if you are on open ground or the will get caught up in trees and bushes.

Never call her more than once, if you do you are teaching her to ignore you, only call when you know she will come back.  Teach her to return to a whistle, start in the house, when she is 100% outside on the long line to the whistle, you can start to let her off completely for short periods.

Don't forget to giver her high rewards when she does come back to you.  If she already ignores you calling her, teach her to come to a different word.

For the standing over your partner, keep her out of the bedroom until she learns some manners.  You can have a gate on so she can see you but can't come in.

Quote: I am the strictist with her but i am finding it quite hard at the moment, she has stopped responding to recall (she used to be fantastic at this) Blue is fab with other dogs tho, however will stand and bark and bark whilst wagging her tail ( I am thinking she wants to play)

You may be too stricked, being stricked doesn't work with dogs, we have to set them up to succeed not fail, being stricked sets them up to fail.

If you want her to sit, she needs to be in a situation where she can sit, same with everything else.   Never call her unless you know she will come, this gets a dog into the habit of obeying you willingly.

 

Quote: Would appreciate some advice, i have tried squirting with water (when barking at birds) however she just gets wound up!

I would get more than wound up if someone was squirting water at me, I would probably turn and attack them, many dogs do when water is squirted at them.

Turn the barking at birds into a training session if you can, start bouncing a ball if she loves balls, when she starts to run back, give her the command to come and reward her for coming.  Play with her for a very short time as a reward for leaving the birds and coming to you.

You are only restricted by your imagination, the more imaginative things you can think of to get her to do what you want the better.   You will enjoy her better as well because life becomes fun for both of you.

Good luck.

brodie wrote: best to get a dog behaviour expert involved. Try someone from Jan Fennells te am she is on the web site just google her name. They use gentle method of training but asserting you as pack leader. works well and quickly. Dont know if you are in the u.k though

The pack leader is based on warped research, it was done on one captive wolf pack and captive wolf packs behaved differently to wild wolves.  Also dogs are not wolves just as we are not monkeys but are closely related to them.

Have 2 of my posts been taken off?  If so why?  I was correcting some bad advice that was given.

You have to be very careful on the advice you give on message boards, people have different interpretations on words and what may seem gentle to me, may be aggressive to someone else.

I do know of a board that a lot of good advice was given but one person put up similar advice to what was on here.  The lady wanting the advice use the only bad advice, her dog made a really bad attack on her and she ended up in hospital with serious dog bites needing plastic surgery to try and sort them out.

This lady tried to sue the message board but thankfully they had all the other posts so the lady couldn't, if they hadn't saved the other posts, the board would have been shut down and the owner prosecuted.

Mattie wrote: brodie wrote: best to get a dog behaviour expert involved. Try someone from Jan Fennells te am she is on the web site just google her name. They use gentle method of training but asserting you as pack leader. works well and quickly. Dont know if you are in the u.k though The pack leader is based on warped research, it was done on one captive wolf pack and captive wolf packs behaved differently to wild wolves. Also dogs are not wolves just as we are not monkeys but are closely related to them.

 

 

Hi Mattie,

            &nb sp;  dogs are naturally pack animals though aren't they ? I have seen a few cases where weak owner is ignored or even threatened by a dog which has assumed the dominant role.I have to say i fully agree that the owner must be seen a pack leader in order to have the dogs full attention & obedience.

Humans are not pack leaders because we are not dogs and dogs are intelligent enough to know we are not dogs.  The dogs that are getting labels as dominant are because the owner is either sending mixed signals to the dogs or no signals.  We already hold all the resources, food, exercise, etc. we don't need to prove to a dog that we are leader.

Even with a pack of dogs, I have a pack of 6, the leader is fluid, one may be the leader for toys, another for food.  A good leader doesn't need to prove themselves,

A lot depends on the breed, Collies will find themselves a job if the owner doesn't give them one and is why many will chase bikes, cars etc, they are hearding not dominating.

Like children dogs need boundaries, if you don't want your dog on the furniture, never let him and make sure everyone else in the house does this as well.  No use stopping him one day and allowing him the next.  This makes a mixed up dog.

We have to teach our dogs what words mean, a dog doesn't automatically know what they are yet you see owners expecting their dog to sit when they tell them but they haven't taught the dog what the word sit means then punish them when they don't sit.

Take the dog in this thread, many would say he is dominant but never say why they think he is dominant, it is the in word so of course it must be.  In fact the dog is just being a dog and doing what dogs do because he hasn't been taught any differently.

Normally I wouldn't bother about a dog being on a bed, I have 5 sleep on mine but this dog hasn't learnt that the bed isn't his, so he need to be kept out of the bedroom until he learns some manners.  He should only go on the bed when he is invited.  All my dogs will get off my bed when I ask, I only ask once.

It is easier to teach a dog to do something by setting him up to do it.  Take sit again, to teach it we hold a treat over his nose and move our hand back over his head.  In order to see the treat the dog has to sit, when he does he is praised and the next time it is easier to get him to sit.  

At one time you taught a dog to sit by pressing on his quarters, the dog presses back which makes it difficult to get the dog to sit.  Many owners get frustrated and start to smack the dog which confuses him even more.   Eventually after being smacked quite a bit the dog realises that the owner wants him to sit. 

If I was a dog, I know which way I would prefer to be taught.

Are you in the uk anywhere near the north west of England as I can recommend a really good behaviour expert, who helped with Charlie.

Mark

Mattie wrote: Humans are not pack leaders because we are not dogs and dogs are intelligent enough to know we are not dogs. The dogs that are getting labels as dominant are because the owner is either sending mixed signals to the dogs or no signals. We already hold all the resources, food, exercise, etc. we don't need to prove to a dog that we are leader. Even with a pack of dogs, I have a pack of 6, the leader is fluid, one may be the leader for toys, another for food. A good leader doesn't need to prove themselves, A lot depends on the breed, Collies will find themselves a job if the owner doesn't give them one and is why many will chase bikes, cars etc, they are hearding not dominating. Like children dogs need boundaries, if you don't want your dog on the furniture, never let him and make sure everyone else in the house does this as well. No use stopping him one day and allowing him the next. This makes a mixed up dog. We have to teach our dogs what words mean, a dog doesn't automatically know what they are yet you see owners expecting their dog to sit when they tell them but they haven't taught the dog what the word sit means then punish them when they don't sit. Take the dog in this thread, many would say he is dominant but never say why they think he is dominant, it is the in word so of course it must be. In fact the dog is just being a dog and doing what dogs do because he hasn't been taught any differently. Normally I wouldn't bother about a dog being on a bed, I have 5 sleep on mine but this dog hasn't learnt that the bed isn't his, so he need to be kept out of the bedroom until he learns some manners. He should only go on the bed when he is invited. All my dogs will get off my bed when I ask, I only ask once. It is easier to teach a dog to do something by setting him up to do it. Take sit again, to teach it we hold a treat over his nose and move our hand back over his head. In order to see the treat the dog has to sit, when he does he is praised and the next time it is easier to get him to sit. At one time you taught a dog to sit by pressing on his quarters, the dog presses back which makes it difficult to get the dog to sit. Many owners get frustrated and start to smack the dog which confuses him even more. Eventually after being smacked quite a bit the dog realises that the owner wants him to sit. If I was a dog, I know which way I would prefer to be taught.

 

 

It seems to be different terms for the same thing. Creating boundaries and an environment where the dog will pay attention to YOU rather than every distraction that passes them by.That is what i personally call being a pack leader.

Possibly, but how you say things is very important, we prefer to be asked to do something and not told.  If we are asked we do it willingly, if we are told, we may do it reluctantly.

When we do something willingly we are happy to do it and it is easy to do, do it reluctantly, we resent it and it is very difficult to do.   I know from my work with both dogs and horses, you get to a much higher standard if you are pleasant and ask than if you order and try to make them do something.

Mattie wrote: Possibly, but how you say things is very important, we prefer to be asked to do something and not told. If we are asked we do it willingly, if we are told, we may do it reluctantly. When we do something willingly we are happy to do it and it is easy to do, do it reluctantly, we resent it and it is very difficult to do. I know from my work with both dogs and horses, you get to a much higher standard if you are pleasant and ask than if you order and try to make them do something.

 

 

Absolutely.Bullying a dog is no substitute for proper training.